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Zefz
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:14 am    Post subject: Hero Classes If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

List any suggestions for Hero classes below here. For those who don't know it, Hero classes are specialized branch classes for each of the base classes. They often focus and specialize in one branch, but fall behind in other abillities when they do so. A special quest is needed before a special class is gained.

Each bonus is preceeded with a + and drawback with a -. The hero classes are exactly the same as base class except as noted. All Hero classes have 4 new skins. Post suggestions or ideas below.

WIZARD
Battlemage
+ Can use metal armor which gives higher defence
+ More hp and strength?
- Gains less mana, mana regeneration and caster level in addition to intelligence

Archmage
+ Can use super powerful epic magic spellbooks (unique spellbooks)
+ Gains even more intelligence
- Gains less strength, dexterity and life

Elementalist
+ Higher Elemental resistance
+ Elemental spells gain bonus damage/decreased costs.
- Other spells become less effective?

Necromancer
+ High Evil resistance.
+ Evil spells (Rot, Animate, Cloudkill) Gain bonus damage/ decreased costs.
- Weak against Holy.
- Other spells become less effective?

Sage
+ All spells gain a small damage bonus.
+ Can Identify items, Curses, and spot Invisibles.
+ More wisdom
- Becomes very slow.
- Lower Def.
- Only has one armor skin.


SOLDIER
Samurai
+ Gains more dexterity
+ Bonus damage and speed with Katana
+ Can disarm?
- Loses abillity to joust?
- Gains less strength?

Knight
+ Gains more wisdom
+ Gains bonuses when mounted or using lance
- Gains less strength
- Refuses to use poisoned or evil weapons

Berserker
+ Gains extra strength and life
+ Can go bloodfrenzy when killing many enemies (+3 damage, +4 life, -50 defence)
- Intelligence and wisdom penality?
- Non-metal armor only? (less defence)

Kensai
+ Gains +1 bonus damage every 2 levels when using melee weapons
+ Moves a lot faster
- Cannot use ranged weapons?
- Cannot use metal armor?


ROGUE
Ninja
+ Triple jump
+ Extra dex
+ Bonuses when using ninjastars?
- Cannot pickpocket?
- Cannot disarm traps?
New Specialpower: Quadruple jumps!

Assassin
+ 30% to poison enemies with any weapon
+ 5% to gain 1 bonus damage pr. level
- Cannot pickpocket?
- Cannot double jump?
- Gain less intelligence and life
New Specialpower: 1% every 2 levels to instant kill non-undead

Pirate (Use as Hero Class instead?)
+ More strength and life
+ Gains "Advanced Weapons" profiency
+ Can use special pirate items?
- Less dexterity and intelligence
- Cannot use poison?
- Cannot disarm traps?


PALADIN
Crusader
+ Can detect undead
+ Can hurt ghosts normally
+ Bonus damage when attacking undead
- Less mana and mana return
New Specialpower: 1% per level to instant kill any undead


ELF
Deepwood Archer
+ Gain bonus when using longbow
+ Gain more life and dexerity
- Gain no more mana, mana regeneration?
- Less intelligence gain

Sorcerer
+ Gain bonus mana
+ Can use burning hands spell without books (like healer does healing)
- Gain less dexterity and intelligence

Druid?

GNOME
Alchemist
+ Autoidentifies potions
+ Bonus intelligence
+ 30% chance to poison using any weapon
+ 25% chance to add extra random elemental damage to any attack
- Gains less life and strength

Spellhunter
+ Gains resistance to spells
+ Immune vs. Daze
+ Can see invisible
- Cannot be healed by magic (potions only)
- Cannot use [TECH] items?

ADVENTURER
{Random idea; Inventor as hero class?}
+Tech skills
-Less magical ability

Jester
+High dexterity
+{whatever we call the crazy item skill}
+Double jump / faster movement
-No magic
-Less health

Bard
+Musical skill; can use special items to hinder enemies and help allies
+Faster movement
+Nature magic
-Lower strength and dexterity
-Poor armor

ARCHAEOLOGIST
Smuggler
+Goblin tech
+More health
-Whip skillz
-Less strength
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Last edited by Zefz on Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:47 am; edited 3 times in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:36 am    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

I don't think heroes should have four new skins, because that means they'd have seven or eight (depending on whether you liked my idea with the fourth skin of the base class and all that) skins total.
I say only two or three. I suppose it could also depend on what class it is.

Also, the Crusader should be called the Templar, like I said before, because A. it sounds cooler and B. the Paladin's special skill is already called crusader.
And don't forget the gladiator for the the Soldier's special classes.

Pirate is fine as a hero class. I'll take it off the list.
The pirate could actually have the same skill as the jester...
Grr. I really want to do a jester. But I think it'd need a new model... err... maybe.


I'll copy my post from the other thread so that people can respond here, or... whatever:
Quote:
I was gonna do Paladin and Soldier hero classes...
Paladin:
-Slayer (high strength and dexterity)
-Templar (better healing; high wisdom and intelligence)
-Cleric (better health and mana, but lower strength and dexterity)
Soldier:
-Berserker (insanely high attack)
-Samurai (high dexterity and good attack)
-Gladiator (better / more varied weapon proficiency)
...Agent of Dread wanted to do the Gladiator back when it was a core class, though. If that's still the case, you can do that one, AoD.

It would be nice if we could set it up so the data file had positive or negative numbers for the stats, and that would be the amount added to or taken away from the object before it was transformed.
Would that be possible?
This would make it a lot easier. Then you could have classes like the Cleric that would be available to Healers and Paladins. We would need slightly different objects; besides having a different gender and model, they'd also have different changes in stats. The Healer - Cleric branch would actually be about gaining MORE attack power, not LESS, as in the case of the Paladin; they would end up very similar. In other words, the Cleric is halfway between a Healer and a Paladin.
The same could be done with the Mystic, which (as Zefz mentioned once before) could branch from both the Adventurer and the Healer.
The Jester could actually be a Hero class as well, branching from the Rogue, Adventurer, or Pirate.
I'll take it off the list.
...Oh, and the Martial Artist could be a Hero class for the Rogue (and maybe the Adventurer too?). I took that off as well.

Also, I think that there should be some advantage to keeping with the core class.
I think the fourth armor (Spock/Rambo/etc.) should be improved. Then it can be put in some kind of special shop only accessible by level 5 or 6 characters or something.
Then if you have that armor, it adds some kind of tag, so you can't become a hero class.

There needs to be more incentive for not changing class besides keeping your old skill balance.


I also thought that hero classes should not have the special ability the mastered core classes have.
Another incentive to keep the core class.
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Zefz
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:56 am    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

1. Agreed then. It depends on hero class. Hero class armor chests are rare anyways (but universial in my opinion - which means any hero class can use it).

2. Ah okay. Do you think Templar fits for undead slayer? Templar sounds like a warrior focused divine fighter.

3. Jester and Pirate skill, good idea. Any idea what it could be called?

4. Yeah that is a good idea. Base classes are also more veristale and less specialized. Some Hero classes might have new unlockable powers? (At 20000 xp or something).

We could make Hero classes progress slower xp-wise too.
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Chainsaw
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:17 am    Post subject: Re: Hero Classes If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Wizard
Elementalist
+ Higher Elemental resistance
+ Elemental spells gain bonus damage/decreased costs.
- Other spells become less effective?

Necromancer
+ High Evil resistance.
+ Evil spells (Rot, Animate, Cloudkill) Gain bonus damage/ decreased costs.
- Weak against Holy.
- Other spells become less effective?

Sage
+ All spells gain a small damage bonus.
+ Can Identify items, Curses, and spot Invisibles.
+ More wisdom
- Becomes very slow.
- Lower Def.
- Only has one armor skin.

Soldier
Mage Slayer
+ Higher Elemental resistance
+ All spells have a small chance of failing within a certain range of the Mage Slayer, chance depends on level.
- Becomes slower.
- Lower Def.
New Specialpower: Draining Aura, Hostiles lose mana rapidly, rate depends on level.
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woodmouse
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:48 am    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Healer
Clericess
+Increases max mana when attacking undead
+Higher dex
-Slower
-Less strenght
-Can't jump if there is nothing to jump over

Godsent Healer
+Healing costs no mana
+Faster
+50% more damage against undead
-Less strenght
-Can't kill other human characters
-Less dex

Soldier
Dragonman (Purple, don't kill me, when I still want this!)
+More strenght
+Burning footsteps (9999 exp ability)
+Immune to fire
-Loses health in water or ice
-Less health
-Can't use bows
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PurpleSquerkle
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:15 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Chainsaw: Necromancer is good for a hero class. But should I take "Reaper" off the list? The original idea was that the Reaper would be a Hero class for the Necromancer. But now that the Necromancer itself is a Hero....
Woodmouse: That's fine with me (it makes much more sense as a hero class), but I still think it could use a better name.
But that's just my opinion! Smile

Zefz wrote:
1. Agreed then. It depends on hero class. Hero class armor chests are rare anyways (but universial in my opinion - which means any hero class can use it).

2. Ah okay. Do you think Templar fits for undead slayer? Templar sounds like a warrior focused divine fighter.

3. Jester and Pirate skill, good idea. Any idea what it could be called?

4. Yeah that is a good idea. Base classes are also more veristale and less specialized. Some Hero classes might have new unlockable powers? (At 20000 xp or something).

We could make Hero classes progress slower xp-wise too.


1. Most of them are, but I think that armor needs to be in K'nife's Heist. It could be replaced with level three armor (we're going to have to do a new one now that we're going to have Ninja as a separate class); there's already plenty of loot there, and even low-level characters can access the module (although it is a bit difficult).
2. Actually, looking at your description again, that's basically what I was thinking for the Slayer. So Crusader = Slayer ?
The Templar could be more combat-focused, yes; what if, instead of healing, he could bless weapons? With a global object repository, we could have blessed versions of all basic weapons (I can do them; it really wouldn't need much besides particle effects). They'd do extra Holy damage, but the blessing would wear off after a while.... It could become more effective as you gain higher levels.
3. Hmm. I dunno... I'll have to think about that.


Then, regarding your list:
1. The alchemist should be able to transmute items into other objects of similar material. That's be nifty.
...but kinda hard to script.
2. I don't like the idea of having Kensei on there, since we already have the Japanese flavor/"vibe" represented by the Samurai.
I suggest these two:

Gladiator

+Able to use ordinary objects as improvisational weaponry
+Good armor
-Fewer health points

Keshik

+Bonuses while mounted
+Able to use both crossbows and longbows
+Bonus damage with scimitars and ranged weapons
-Poor defense
-No metal armor


Here are some for the adventurer:

{Random idea; Inventor as hero class?}
+Tech skills
-Less magical ability

Jester
+High dexterity
+{whatever we call the crazy item skill}
+Double jump / faster movement
-No magic
-Less health

Bard
+Musical skill; can use special items to hinder enemies and help allies
+Faster movement
+Nature magic
-Lower strength and dexterity
-Poor armor

And here's some for the Archaeologist:

Tourist
+{whatever we call the crazy item skill}
+Arcane magic
+Divine magic (but no natural healing ability)
+Able to use ordinary objects as improvisational weaponry
-Whip skillz
-Less of every stat

Smuggler
+Goblin tech
+More health
-Whip skillz
-Less strength


The Tourist would also work for the Adventurer, but it would look more like this:

Tourist
+{whatever we call the crazy item skill}
+Divine magic (but no natural healing ability)
+Able to use ordinary objects as improvisational weaponry
-Less of every stat
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Zefz
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:25 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Unless we want the tourist to be a unlockable class as it was originally planned.

I tried to make Hero classes as easy to make as possible with the current availible tools and scripts we have.

Your Holy Weapon abillity could for example be done through a simple Enchant.

I am not yet sure how to make certain spells or damage types more powerful (Like animate, fire magic, etc.).

And in my opinion the Kensai is cooler than a samurai, but I'm probably the only one here who thinks that Razz
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PurpleSquerkle
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:36 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Maybe, but Samurai had cooler helmets.
Very Happy

Anyhow, you can just put a script in the spell.

And would the blessed weapons be able to spawn particles through an enchantment? I want them to look fancy as well.
And we would at least want to add the feature I mentioned with the stat addition/subtraction, right? It'd make it a lot better; otherwise stats would have to be totally rerolled.

I suppose Tourist would be better as unlockable (lots of interesting starter possibilities), but I still like the idea of giving it nearly every skill but bad stats.
And if it is unlockable, it should be difficult to do so.

(Informe is driving me nuts; it's taking about ten minutes to load a page!!)
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Maxaxle
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:15 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Hmm....I think I'll do something about my Inventor...
Starting class: Inventor
Hero class: Engineer?
+More intelligence (almost as high as a Wizard's!!!)
+More wisdom (Higher than before)
+Can disarm traps? (specifically, gas/flame/water traps in chests)
+Arcane magic? (Wizard magic)
+Has a general idea of what all tech is, even if he can't use it. Mostly for Hobgoblin tech...?
+Can invent 'the Autocross', an automatic crossbow with little ammo. Tends to run out of ammo quickly. It also looks like a regular crossbow, but a little bigger than the average crossbow.
-Less strength
-Life doesn't go up much?
-Mana remains pretty limited, but the mana flow is decent.

On a sidenote, I think there should be a "sweet-smelling potion" that would cause the speed of the character to increase, the strength to decrease slightly, the dexterity to increase slightly, the wisdom and intelligence to decrease slightly, the character's attack speed would be faster, but the character would be able to annoy shopkeepers just by running around their shop. This effect would be called "hyperactivity" or "sugar rush!!!". The shopkeepers, in response, would say something like, "Okay, you can get something for 1/2 price, if you just leave my shop afterwards!!!", and let you get anything for half price. The effect would wear off after about 30 seconds (or less), and when that happens, a new effect sets in: "tiredness" or "sugar crash!!!", when the character's speed is decreased, strength, dexterity, wisdom and intelligence are decreased, and the character's attack speed is slightly slower. This effect wears off after a minute or so, but the "recovery" can be sped up by eating regular foods (no health or mana effects, though!).
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Last edited by Maxaxle on Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Zefz
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:41 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Yes, particles and glow effects could be spawned too. Even sounds and such.

I don't like the idea of modifying every spell out there just because we add a hero class. Rather make a new (skill) expansion that adds 30% bonus damage to all FIRE effects for example. Fire Mastery skill for example.
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PurpleSquerkle
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:29 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

So you don't like my idea, Maxaxle? No Inventor-as-hero?
I guess it'd be for the same reasons as the Tourist; too much starter potential. Smile
By the way. Edgar has an auto crossbow in FFVI. It's pretty sweet.
It looks kind of like a machine gun and a crossbow put together. Or just like a more modern crossbow. It's metallic.

Zefz wrote:
Yes, particles and glow effects could be spawned too. Even sounds and such.

I don't like the idea of modifying every spell out there just because we add a hero class. Rather make a new (skill) expansion that adds 30% bonus damage to all FIRE effects for example. Fire Mastery skill for example.


That'd be a good idea.
We could do the same for weapons, so that the Archaeologist and such would be easier to do.

Oh, and I thought of a great idea from the Battlemage; I sort of got the idea from Alphonse Elric (Fullmetal Alchemist) and the Yukes (Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles):
The battlemage has reached such obscene levels of arcane prowess that he has practically destroyed his own body in favor of a more powerful form. He has now been reduced to a vapor contained within a suit of armor.
I can see it in my head... and it looks snazzy. I wanna make it (using the Elf model; the ears are going to be horns on the armor... the same could be done for the Berserker, now that I think about it)!
So, yeah. I think, rather than just "claiming" whole base classes, I'll just take a few specific Heroes; the lists are growing alarmingly (particularly the Soldier's).
So I want to do (for now):
-Templar
-Battlemage
-Samurai
-Berserker
(Then later I'd like to do the Jester and Smuggler and some others, but I'm not going to commit to it right now.)

...Because, as I have said already, I don't plan on doing quite as many object-related things from now on.
But I really want to do those because they sound especially fun to me.
Of course, other stuff (most notably the website) will have to take priority just now, but I'll get cracking soon enough.

Oh, by the way, has anybody seen what this is doing to the class list? It's pretty sweet!
Of course, it does add more work to the classes already on the list, but....


And Zefz, will you add "approved" (i.e., the ones you think are good) Heroes to your main list up there?
Oh, and (I thought of this a while ago, but didn't say anything for some reason) Woodmouse, how about "Aaron's Chosen" for the second healer you have there? We need more references to Aaron as world-creator in the game, I think. Razz
I like the idea of her not being able to kill humans, but I'm not sure how it would be pulled off... maybe a script (or could this even be scripted?) to remove a ton of experience when you kill a human?
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Zefz
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:43 am    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Will do. It was my original plan anyways.

But chainsaw already made a pretty sweet skin for the battlemage.
One question though: do you think it's a good idea to restrict and take away skills the character already has as part of a drawback? (Assassin not disarming traps for example).
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PurpleSquerkle
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:05 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Zefz wrote:
Will do. It was my original plan anyways.

But chainsaw already made a pretty sweet skin for the battlemage.
One question though: do you think it's a good idea to restrict and take away skills the character already has as part of a drawback? (Assassin not disarming traps for example).


I think it's OK as long as the player is warned ahead of time.

Also, how about a different class, then; Animate Armor?
It'd basically be the Arcane version of a Paladin (I'll even give it an unarmed magic attack). It could branch from either the Wizard or the Adventurer (I think the Adventurer should have the most choices, since he's the most versatile).
Also, you didn't like the Keshik or the Gladiator? Sad
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Zefz
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:08 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

I was looking at those.

1. I do not know what a Keshik is.

2. An armor level 1 Soldier is basically a Gladiator. His special abillity seemed really hard to make and I am not quite sure how you thought it would work.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:11 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Just leave random objects (nets and things) around and make them weapons, but have them require a skill only the Gladiator can use.
Anyway, I think we need something in a Greek/Roman flavor.

Keshik were Mongol light cavalry.
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